SPURS N SIX GUNS - OOC

Ah, I didn't realize that the gold rush and civil war co-existed on the time-line. Odd that people were heavy into the mining during a war? Industry and war, eh?

It all sounds good to me to stay at 1865.

I think though that eventually a 1875 time line may start up, just to allow writing in a more familiar time. The great Indian wars were still going on (I think they go to 1890), and it was a bustling time. The transcontinental railway is well in use and in other places, like Idaho for example, there were still many boom towns: Orogrande, Dixie, Newsome, Salmon River, Golden, Marshall Lake, Burgdorf and others. There were around seventeen mining districts. I checked out the timeline, because I was sure that I had seen more modern weaponry used in a 'gold rush' setting. More 'civilized' or more appropriately 'refined' people are spreading further West and the world is modernizing rapidly.

I guess the appeal of 1865 could be that it represents a time before the modernization. I personally like the idea of the fancy saloons to the rougher pioneer style, but I can get used to it.

We (and when I say that, I mean 'I') can probably hash this out forever. I apologize in advance for inaccuracies because I know very little of the American world prior to the civil war, other than what I have picked up here and there. I probably know far more about Europe and naturally Canada, during 1865. Western Canada in 1865 was all farmers and trappers, a far cry from the romantic Westerns of the 1870's. So you can see why I am picturing a rougher setting. Eastern Canada by contrast was FAR more modern, but when you headed West, you took your life into your hands and prayed that there were some Royal Canadian Mounted Police around.

At the very beginning I really pictured the setting for Tombstone and imagined that our story would exist in the same time period, however, that was the 1880's. It seems the most well known 'Cowboy' legends came from that time period.

So, let me get this straight. We are going to eventually have two western stories going.....right? How cool is that!!!!

As I had previously stated I do not want to take anything away from the efforts already put into the creation of Shady Gulch, so the 1860's story line should be dominant for the time being.

We all have different ideas of what a 'romanticized western story' is. Mine is the period between 1875 and 1885, so what may happen is the creation of a second SPURS N SIX GUNS, so we will have the 1865, Civil War story and 1875, Post Civil War version.

Lac and I will hash out the post civil war story. Right now I am leaning toward something like a Tombstone story but not centering the story around any particular location. If it ends up that a particular town is working out to be a permanent setting we'll map it out at that point and time, until then it will just be a free-for-all.

I've really been trying to familiarize myself with percussion pistols and what towns would have been like prior to 1880, but as I am already on my third character and I am a little Westerned-out. You write from what you know, and I don't seem to know a hell of a lot. What I have learned is that the 1860's in a very specific and distinct time in history, and one that many directors have gotten wrong, as they tend to cross over technologies from one time period to another to make their movies more familiar. I thought I might be able to use one of my favorite movies the Legend of Jeremiah Johnson as a reference but it turns out that would be 1849, so that really confused me since I swear one the pistols he used was a later model Colt. Still in the beginning the settlement he started at seemed to be a good example of a pioneer town. Guess that's another thing I am trying to get straight in my head since I am a descriptive writer. What are the saloons going to look like? Would there be many differences from an 1880's style Saloon?. I really have no idea. Would this depict a common poker match in an 1860 Shady Gulch, saloon? Is that how people would be dressed?

I didn't mean anything other than that it will be fun to have two westerns going. I am not familiar with guns, but am learning with the story in progress. LOL Most of my familiarity with westerns is from romance novels. LOL Probably not the best reference to use.

I will be submitting a Character for this time period shortly. We just need to nail the time frame down, please.

Sir Easy had mentioned 1865. That's the time period I have been researching so I hope that's the year we're taking place in. Things change pretty rapidly in the 1860's, so the deviation of one year can really effect a bio. Especially when you are using actual events and people from history like I am currently in the process of.

Come to think of it the original 1861 time line would even work. Now that I am a little more familiar with the Civil War I can see that whether we are at the beginning or end of the war shouldn't really matter.

Tiph

just so everyone knows Im lil confused. why do we have to datelines? Since this is a problem...just changed the dateline from 1861 to 1871 and I'll write out the storyline


Al (easy)

Since this is a period piece. I thought that we needed a year to start in. Originally you had 1861, that seems cool. Its just nice to have a reference point, that's all.

There finally finished and submitted Sandy Wilken. Did quite a bit of reading on the Hudson Bay Company, its a part of my countries history but we're not taught a lot of the specifics on it.

So 'Write from what you know, eh?'. I thought, since I don't know a lot about Arizona or rather the, New Mexico Territory (since its 1861) I thought it might make more sense to portray foreigner to the south. You can see by Sandy's write up that a specific date is required since I followed the true history of the HBC. A deviation in the time line, kind of messes things up. I have a habit of doing that with most of my characters. I really like to give them believable pasts that coincide with the actual history of time. That's the cool thing about a period piece.

ok...ILL WRITE UP a starting point and we can go from there...

Easy

Sweet. Sounds good.

Story started...Im not to worried about all this historical data everyone is throwing into the loop. If you want to read how bad or watch how bad historical facts can be thrown off...go watch the movie Patriot with mel gibson. http://www.dvdfile.com/reviews/blurayreviews/26565-the-patriot-b


Im not happy to see two versions one stated in 1860 and one in 1880

i told you I could change the date for a later date but whatever..you guys who fancy the history have to...

Seeing how I started the story if my historical facts arent right on...im not too worried about it. Furthermore...who cares...its a fictional story some accuracies that will be off. We based the true facts on the guns used; if you plan on using a description every time you write in a gun battle, go for it. I dont...see beginning of story. I said leadballs were a pain in the a## to load on the pistol, but they are fun to shoot and holters back in the day carried pre-loaded calipers, all one needed to do was removed the pin and reload.

The civil war is not on everybody mind in every conversation???? Is it now...do we all talk about the war in Iraq? I dont ...hell yestersday I spent the day fishing with buddies from work. We work for the Army...did it come up in a conversation..hell no. So I cant imagine people talking about a conflict between the north and the south and talking about it in every conversation...not in my scope...??? But whatever...

I want to have fun in this western...theres alot of good stories that can come from this...so please reconsider and lets stick with one dateline.

I know my character is thinking about the ironclad wagon with thousands of dollars in gold running to and from Shady Gulch to Coyote Hills...

Easy

Point taken, Easy. I created the 1880's only because I didn't want to lose my first characters and it made more sense to organize them in a different forum, since the 80's and 60's are so different. As I stated previously, I like the Western stories that hover around the period of Tombstone, so maybe in the future another story may develop. It's no different than the way we have two Super-hero stories. They are separated in two forums and have different plot lines and different characters, but unlike Spurs and Six Guns they are the same time line and yet they co-exist.

I still beg to differ that internal strife is a little different than a war over seas, but I agree that despite the fact that a few states over a Civil war is playing out it would not completley encompass peoples daily lives (unless they were in the thick of it). Still, the way it shaped the States leads one to believe that it would in fact touch on peoples minds from time to time. Our story is fictional, yes, but it does exist in a world based on actual history. While we are not rewriting the past, it is an element of the story which I am sure we all agree cannot be discounted. We can make anything happen, but I feel we should try not to blatantly butcher history (when and if we touch upon something historical) if we can help it. I am by no stretch a historian, but I'll give it my best effort to write in the period and I have no doubt that any of you don't know your history so I'll do my best to keep up.

Oh, and Easy we usually name our stories using the title then follow it with a chapter number.

'SPURS N SIX GUNS - Chapter 1'

Sometime we the chapter a name but it's not really necessary:

SPURS N SIX GUNS - Blood & Gold - Chap.1

It just makes it easier to organize the story once we get into multiple chapters. Its not really important at this point.

ahhh thanks I didnt know about the chapters that makes sense...ILL see if its changable.


Agreed well taken on the historical stuff...when and if we run into a section that needs to be clarified


Ok I still need to find some pics for my characters.

Im thinking we need a territoral or regional map showing distances, landscapes (a mountain range the desert...the superstitution mountains...designated towns such as tombstone, flagstaff...the colorado river and then add our fictional towns of coyete hills and shady gulch).

Also thinking it would be nice to add a historic page and add the currency/ $$ for a oz of gold, wanted posters-$$ and weblinks of all the places you and lac have pointed out since we started this...what do you think?

Easy

Totally Easy. I really like the idea of having a static page of information. I left in the description of some of the weapons of my characters the prices for reference. Guns are expensive!

I like the idea of a map too. An old map of the New Mexico Territory would be good. Say? Does Arizona exist right now, in 1861? Do people refer to the area as Arizona?

The Territory of Arizona was an organized incorporated territory of the United States that existed from February 24, 1863 until February 14, 1912, when it was admitted to the Union as the 48th state. A forerunner, identical in name but largely differing in location and size, was the Confederate Territory of Arizona that existed officially from 1861 to 1863, when it was re-captured by the Union, after which the Union created in 1863 their Territory of Arizona. Though the Confederate Arizona government of continued to rule in exile until the end of the war in 1865. The two territories played a significant role in the western campaign of the American Civil War.


Map site:
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/new_mexico_territory-1857-atlas-rogers-p3.jpg


NEW MEXICO TERRITORY 1857




NEW MEXICO TERRITORY 1859


The Territory of New Mexico was an organized incorporated territory of the United States that existed from September 9, 1850, until January 6, 1912, when the final extent of the territory was admitted to the Union as the State of New Mexico.


Republic of Mexico 1824
As you can see what is now Arizona was actually a part of the New Mexico Territory in 1861


1850

The Congressional Compromise of 1850 halted a bid for statehood under a proposed antislavery constitution.

The status of slavery during the territorial period provoked considerable debate. The granting of statehood was up to a Congress sharply divided on the slavery issue. Some (including Stephen A. Douglas) maintained that the territory could not restrict slavery, as under the earlier Missouri Compromise, while others (including Abraham Lincoln) insisted that older Mexican legal traditions, which forbade slavery, took precedence. Regardless of its official status, slavery was rare in antebellum New Mexico. Black slaves never numbered more than about a dozen[1].

The South refused House Republicans' proposal approved by committee on December 29, 1861 to admit New Mexico as a state immediately. [2] On 24 February 1863, during the American Civil War, Congress divided the territory and created the new Arizona Territory along current boundaries between the states. The act of establishment abolished slavery in the Arizona Territory.

Cool. Thanks Lac. That would be good information to put in a Lexicon for the story.

So, right now we are in a Confederate Arizona Territory. Interesting.

You're welcome, yes it would. I will add more as I find it and remember the history and verify from my reasearch

Lac

Gr8 work

LETS USE THE FIRST MAP as the territory one...

v\Map site:
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/new_mexico_territory-1857-atlas-rogers-p3.jpg





Tiph...as you know the towns of Coyote Hills and Shady Gulch start out near the Grand Canyon which is in the Mohave desert is.. Northwest section of the state of az. lots of panhandlers came through here on there way to California gold rush. Looks like Ill need to edit my posts where I used arizonia territory and switch it for new mexico territory. I like the fact that you can enlarge the map on this one...but I found another map from historic map works.com that shows the Cerbat mountain range and the real town of Coyote Hole which is what I changed to Coyote Hills for the storyline. The history map works .com costs about $10 per map...so do you think you could add the towns to it if I give you some idea where to add the towns at? The real Coyote Hole is north of Needles...east of the colorado river and the Mohave. The colorado river (which in the storyline is the Coyote Hills river) that ran water to Shady Gulch north of Coyote Hills.

Lacnal

in the storyline you have the apaches raiding party killing my cowpokes south of Shady Gulch..
Jeepers crow...you started with a real bang (LOL) I was telling Sin I didnt even get to write a second post b4 you killed them off...(laffing) Thats alright your post fits right in...but Think maybe you could edit the post, and put the area of the raid North of shady gulch. In that way...all my characters would have to pass through shady gulch for supplies before heading south to coyote hills.





I worked 16 hours today/tonite so im a bit tired...will try and add some posts tomorrow evening.

My plan this morning is to go the fan fest at the SF GiANTS ballpark with my baseballs at the redy. Dave Righetti, Vida Blue, Tim Linecum, Will Clark and some other gr8 retired ball players are signing autographs today.

Have a good weekend..

If you couldnt tell yeah...im a diehard baseball nut and SF Giants fan.


EASY

tiph


think I'd like to have my pics addressed with the title like yours and Sins

Yip... if you give an idea where the towns are I can add them to the map. What I'll probably do is create some cutouts so that we can have enlarged versions to look at.

I'll create a collage of your character, Easy in the similar fashion to my others.

Easy. This has already been uploaded into your personal gallery.

That's good we're all picking up on Sir Easy's bread crumb about the iron wagon. I believe that may be a good common plot to cross the characters. We'll have to wait though until Sir Easy, posts what's happening to Dawson. I have sent the posse after him, they should be riding straight for Coyote Hills, through Apache territory. At least that's the idea.

I am thinking we should maybe establish some tension in town with McIntire's men or something... not sure what yet. Nothing to major just something to get Sandy and Bones involved with the town.